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LETTER TO THE EDITOR: Reaction to law student’s column

Published: Wednesday, November 11, 2009

Updated: Wednesday, November 11, 2009

The serious nature of alcoholism and the complications resulting from the disease, though important, are not the primary issues raised by the literary piece about law student drinking.

Addressing the high correlation of alcohol to practicing attorneys is important, and as a means of calling that to public attention I applaud the author. However, I think a more applicable study to “evidence” this national correlation reflected specifically by the USD Law community would be the rate of alcoholism in practicing South Dakota attorneys.

Inserting national statistics on the small state of South Dakota, and our law school, is likely misleading as national statistics often do not accurately mirror South Dakota reality.

It is my shared contention with many that the problem was incorrectly placed on unsuspecting students. The law school has maintained a focus on providing students with various outlets to address problems in-house. This issue has exploded unnecessarily. Instead of addressing the problem within the law school, the author blew the whistle and by doing so has drawn negative attention to my friends, colleagues, peers, family, and most importantly future lawyers, judges and influential individuals.

Is the law school too inept to properly communicate, analyze, and facilitate resolution of this issue? Are the efforts by faculty and staff to address alcoholism too minimal to even mention? Seeing that within our “hungover studies” many of us focus on negotiations, arbitration and resolution it is probable that some sort of compromise could have been made. In an already tight market why would the author, a law student mind you, choose to put a bad taste in potential employer’s mouths about USD law students?

I agree that alcoholism is prevalent among legal professionals, and the national statistics remain alarming. However, the conclusions made about USD law students were unwarranted. Make no mistake I do not mean to degrade either the author or commentators sharing his opinions regarding USD law students’ “lack of professionalism.” My commentary is solely related to the issues raised by the article.

Robbie Rohl
USD Law Student

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29 comments

Make it happen
Fri Nov 13 2009 21:37
Another time then champ
Too bad
Fri Nov 13 2009 21:29
Sorry dude. Not everybody lives in Vermillion.
Please
Fri Nov 13 2009 21:25
Sure, I'll actually be at Raziel's in about 30. Come on down, no more anonymity.
Please
Fri Nov 13 2009 19:15
Country Bumpkin, you should identify yourself. Your skills set you apart and I am certain that potential employers who are reading this will want to know precisely who you are.
Your name
Fri Nov 13 2009 17:57
i dont understand why folks are getting so fired up.. i can count the number of people within the law school that agree with david's position ( the law school has an alcohol problem) on one hand. i better say two hands because i can see that there are some statisticians on here that may go do a survey and come back and bash my comment for inaccuracy. do i agree with him heck no, does he agree with me heck no... do i care... nope!!! we are not the ones that should be defending ourselves he has made this an issue and should provide some justification/evidence to prove his case or point.. i find his article somewhat comical and have been reading it when i need a good laugh! there is some good language in there (grave injustice, thrice-weekly, venerable Carey's ).. good word choice! the only thing better would have been him calling us drinking law students officious inter meddlers!
Country Bumpkin
Fri Nov 13 2009 16:01
Yes, you really are crazy champ.

Your camp is trying to prove the issue, not mine, and has no actual data to support the conclusions. I have only tried to prove that his initial conclusion was not accurate and have effectively done so by undermining his data, so you are wrong. Legitimately prove that there is an alcohol issue at USD instead of just alleging it.

I have not abandoned any arguments, in fact I’ve stood behind my original argument the whole time while you’ve twisted, contorted, and tried to make my comments into something they are not. You should have learned by now that falsely whining about something “I’ve done,” when I haven’t, isn’t going to work.

I have not complained at all, don’t get you and I mixed up. Voicing my opinion when the community I am a part of was slighted, that’s more like it. At no point in time have I refused to take into account any contrary evidence. Just because a competition has an award ceremony at a bar does not mean there is an alcohol issue at the school. To be clear, if there were an alcohol issue at the school then I would be all for addressing it. Again though, please legitimately prove that there is an alcohol issue at USD instead of just alleging it.

I never chastised the author, stop being a drama queen. I addressed that he didn’t initially take steps to address a perceived issue internally, and I stand by it. Moreover, my points have been argued effectively, and not emotionally as you have done.

I don’t need but mostly don’t want your recognition of any credibility, nor did I ever try to establish it. You however, have established that you have none by taking what I’ve said in my posts and drawing conclusions about my abilities.

As far as looking inward, you are in need of heeding your own advice because you have put words into my mouth, responded emotionally, and leveled unwarranted accusations. As far as damaging a client, I have worked for and have demonstrated success advising clients long before I came to school, and not in an entry level context. Essentially, I am far more qualified than you to represent a client’s best interest if I dropped out of school tomorrow.

Bye

One L
Fri Nov 13 2009 15:42
To the guy who wrote to Sam:
Did you READ the article??? While using the phrase "booze-soaked rampages" was probably a bit overboard, The orgininal article definitely went out of its way to sensationalize and blow way out of proportion what actually goes on at these socials. Further, the article made it appear as though it was the lawschool who supported the socials. Try being a little less biased!
Country Bumpkin
Fri Nov 13 2009 15:33
Curious. Look at the other editorial and you will see alot of criticism and personal attacks on both sides.

Also, you are a joke.

curious
Fri Nov 13 2009 13:05
Bad assumption, wrong person. Wasted time and argument.
Crazy?
Fri Nov 13 2009 12:00
Really? Look at your own arguments. You call for evidence while providing none, call for objectivity from an editorial article, make and then abandon arguments when you realize they're not working, complain about the editorial column not taking into account contrary evidence while refusing to consider contrary evidence yourself, chastise a fellow student for talking about an issue that he feels strongly about (despite everything your professors have tried to teach you about advocacy), create strawmen to argue against rather than responding to the actual points made in the article, and pretend to have offered solutions when all you actually did was complain that someone talked bad about your school (which actually wasn't even a true claim). The fact that you're a 2L doesn't lend automatic credibility to your arguments, nor does it justify your failure to meet the basic criteria for effective argument. The fact that somebody disagrees with you does not make them biased or incapable of objectivity. It just means they disagree with you. At some point in your education, you should take some time to turn your pointing finger and critical eye on yourself, hopefully you'll do it before you do actual damage to a client.
curious
Fri Nov 13 2009 11:35
Where has there been an attack leveled at anyone besides David? The ones that don't agree with him are the ones that are tossing around the term "moron" and are insulting the quality of writing of both the article and the comments. Some of the most civil comments are from individuals that agree with David's article.
Faiilure Indeed-Crazy
Fri Nov 13 2009 11:17
Failure Indeed- crazy

Wow, no objectivity whatsoever. You clearly don't mind distorting a comment to suit your needs.

I have done nothing but advocate finding solutions to any legitimate issue that exists. Never did I advance any notion that has the direct or indirect consequence of preventing someone from getting help. I suggested something entirely different, a process for addressing the potential issue. So stop crying.

I say this cautiously: the label fail apples to many of the people supporting David. They have leveled numerous personal attacks against students that recognize that an issue has been created here where none exists. Most importantly, it doesn't apply to me because I have never met the author and have never criticized him. If that is the only point you have to make, save it.

Happy Hunting

Failure indeed
Fri Nov 13 2009 01:35
People who cared about the law school would defend it by ensuring that all of its members are healthy and cared for and that they feel welcome as part of the community. So when we’re assigning the label “fail,” let’s not forget those of you who’ve decided to vilify the 1L who had the audacity to question something about the law school.
Nice Try- Fail
Thu Nov 12 2009 23:46
1)Again, someone that just can't wait to form a conclusion without sufficient evidence that there is in fact a problem. A valid argument provides real evidence, not your opinion, and is not based on the fact that a moot court award ceremony was held at a bar. Show me a trend, because I can show you a trend of non-alcohol based activities.

2)I never indicated that the law school was separate from the USD community at large. The law school is a small community within a larger one. I also never stated that an issue shouldn’t be broached by the university and the community at large if there was an issue. I simply stated that our small community deserves first crack at resolving the issue. Don’t put words into my mouth.

3)This is my second year, and the applicable counseling, alcohol awareness, etc resources have been consistently made known to us. Everyone I know is familiar with the avenues for seeking assistance. We also have very competent faculty that would address the issue as needed.

4)The original article failed to take into account evidence that didn’t support his position regarding an alcohol issue at USD and reached an unwarranted conclusion. I never addressed national statistics or the field in general, because the fact that they prove the existence of an issue does not mean that every law school has a drinking problem. David identified a national issue and applied it to USD, relying too much on the ghosts from his past, a very limited amount of inconclusive data, and the fact that he was able to find a venue to do so.

As far as getting defensive, that characteristic has been present on both sides of the argument, so don’t attribute hyperbole to the USD law “sentries.” Hateful comments have come from both sides, be objective. You pointing that out means nothing though, because I have not leveled any personal attacks towards the author. I don’t know him personally, and so cannot form an opinion.

Lastly, people care about our law school and they defend it when an accusation is unwarranted.

Nice Try
Thu Nov 12 2009 21:13
Country Bumpkin,
These would be valid arguments if 1) the problem of alcohol abuse was new to the law or the law school 2) if you hadn't argued that the law school was somehow separate from the rest of the university or local community such that the issues facing these university students and faculty were irrelevant to anyone not part of the team 3) the law school had ever effectively dealt with the issue of alcohol abuse among students or 4) the original article had slandered lawyers, law students or the law school rather than just pointing out the well known facts that most social events at the law school involve or revolve around alcohol and that the alcoholism rate among attorneys is high. The hyperbole didn't come from the initial article, it came from the defensive and overblown responses of law students and lawyers. The venom with which the author has been attacked says everything that needs to be said about those students and lawyers. It's an embarrassment for the law school and the state bar.
Country Bumpkin
Thu Nov 12 2009 20:56
Now I understand.

You've taken a comment that suggested making an initial attempt to address a perceived issue in house and distorted it. Serving the common good is the goal. Guess what? It's harder to focus on meaningful goals when you are dealing with dramatic issues that are trumped up by people that never give our community a chance to address them.

Endorsing the concept of handling a problem internally to develop a solution is far from advocating self preservation and self promotion. If the internal approach does not solve the problem, then take whatever steps are necessary to do so. Issues should not be swept under the rug, but can be addressed with composure. For example, when you have an issue with your boyfriend, do you go directly to his parents, your parents, and his coworkers or do you try to work it out with him first. Hopefully the latter, welcome to our class on being part of a community 101.

Law student
Thu Nov 12 2009 16:56
“These are SOCIALS, not CLE's, client briefings, or law school lectures.”

So, announcing the winners of school competitions like CCN and the mock trials at the bar... those are just socials, then? Because I was under the impression that you need to do these events to get onto a board and that they were professional opportunities that would have a heavy influence on future careers. Interesting.

And what’s to be said about the fact that a lot of individuals were against inviting local judges and lawyers to the Barrister's Ball because then they can't do the usual and get really drunk. Students wanted to turn up an extremely good opportunity to network so that they could get smashed.

But you’re right. Drinking’s not a problem at all and it’s not prevalent anywhere outside of socials. Good thought process there.

Your name
Thu Nov 12 2009 15:11
i think that Sam's comments are accurate!! David's article attempts to draws a cause-effect relationship that is non-existent. Saying that law students drinking at social events reflects unprofessionalism which in turn relates to a grave injustice on our society is suspect to say the least. These are SOCIALS, not CLE's, client briefings, or law school lectures. No legal knowledge (that has academic or other value) is exchanged at these socials. If it were, yes, that is unprofessional and this may have a cause-effect relationship on the type of service that we as lawyers are going to provide our clients and society. I think that David's article was inaccurate with the picture he was trying to paint via the title "Law School drinking Unprofessional". Had he titled it differently, I believe that he would not be taking so much heat.. That is of course my opinion.. I could be wrong! It is no secret that the law school has socials with kegs. We are not trying to keep this under wraps. It is not like David let some huge cat out of the bag. I am only saying that he is trying to draw conclusions on facts that simply are not there!
Now I understand
Thu Nov 12 2009 14:30
Ahhh, now I get it. Lawyers and law students are part of a team that is separate from the rest of society and they must keep their issues "in house" so nobody else knows about it. Well, at least I can quit operating under the delusion that lawyers and law students are interested in serving the public good. Apparently it's all about self protection and promotion. Somehow my JD just lost a lot of its luster. Thanks for the reality check.
Country Bumpkin
Thu Nov 12 2009 14:04
The matter should have been handled in house as a courtesy to the other students and faculty. When you are part of a team or group, you attempt to resolve issues internally without hurting others prior to getting outsiders involved. If you think it is ok to write an article every time you believe an issue exists, you don't understand being part of a team.

Attorney, I believe Robbie made a sound argument and addressed the important points. You failed to chastise David for his inaccurate use of national statistics and for drawing an unwarranted and unsupported conclusion; that alcohol usage is creating an unprofessional atmosphere at USD law. You then go on to unobjectively hold Robbie responsible for not providing statistics when he has a restrictive word limit. Can you say biased?







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